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Tom  Beakbane's avatar

Does your position hold up if you eliminate a goal-directed participant in the system and instead acknowledge that things in the universe - including ourselves are emergent?

Your perspective is consistent with religious and traditional scientific perspectives that everything in the universe is ruled by God-like laws. The laws characteristic of physics and biology owe their appeal to their religious pedigree. 

When you state that the ship's "atoms really are glued together" there is the inference that something or someone is doing the gluing. Ships are built by people who might use glue, but without a goal directed participant there is no glue. A natural object, like a constellation, is not static and "held together" but is dynamic, perhaps over time getting swallowed into a black hole. 

Remove the idea of a goal-directed organizer who makes sense of the "behavior" of defined objects, including The Ship and what remains is truly mind-independent. The persistent categorizations and "relationships" you rely on for your argument, disappear. 

Us humans are unfamiliar with the perspective that nature and everything in the universe is emergent and not "organized" from the top down. The behavior of atoms is not "coordinated" but emergent in ways that are still, at their core, deeply mysterious.

Humility, characteristic of some religious traditions, is required to acknowledge what scientists have been revealing. The universe exists with or without us and certainly doesn't conform to our simplistic ways of thinking. 

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Shayne Wissler's avatar

Exactly where did you get the idea that *all* nominalists/conceptualists think there is no mind-independent structure "out there" in the world?

Also, just because janitors of philosophy created certain categories doesn't mean we have to buy into them. E.g. they claim that "Hume is an empiricist, as opposed to a rationalist", but Hume didn't talk about himself that way at all, he never painted a dichotomy between rationality and observation, and indeed, it's quite insane to paint oneself as one or the other; actually rational people embrace both evidence and reasoning. Did Plato actually call himself "realist"? Or is this an interpretation created for him by janitors of philosophy?

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